Question: How to ask
Anonymous asks…
My biologically female friend binds her chest, wears male clothing, and cuts her hair short. She hasn’t given much indication that she wants to be male, but I want to know if that’s what would make her happy. How should I find how she identifies, or if she wants me to use different pronouns?
Please post your response in the comments below.
» Ask Genderfork «
Posted by Alice on December 9th, 2010 at 04:00 pm
Category: questions 44 comments »
December 9th, 2010 at 4:16 pm |
Don’t. Wait for your friend to bring it up.
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tigr replied:
December 9th, 2010 at 4:27 pm
Or do!… I really wish people wouldn’t always keep their thoughts to themselves and would rather ASK. ME. DAMMIT! ’cause i’m too shy to bring this up and make the conversation all about myself, but then again I *want* you to know! (“Isn’t it obvious i’m not ‘normal’?” Maybe it is, but people are too polite, grrr. I was *so* happy when at some point, finally, one person came around to actually ask me about why I dress the way I do, or something like that…)
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Anonymous replied:
December 9th, 2010 at 4:34 pm
I feel the same way! I’m uncomfortable speaking right out about myself, and often wish people would just aaaask me.
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Griffin replied:
December 9th, 2010 at 5:15 pm
Totally! I was so ecstatic the first time someone asked me how I identified.
December 9th, 2010 at 4:37 pm |
Hah! This question could be about me.
And you know, like R said, there are contexts in which, and people for whom, it would be rude or presumptuous to ask, and I totally respect that. But since I’m (a) genderqueer and androgynous, (b) not transitioning to male, (c) have no preferred pronouns, (d) a pretty private person in real life, and (e) living in a space where I could lose my job by being “out,” I’m never -going- to bring it up with other people unless it’s relevant to the conversation and I know that they are either trans-knowledgeable or they are at least open-minded enough to hear me out. Otherwise, I just kind of exist as myself, and I’m comfortable with that.
I’ve gotten the question before, once, and I didn’t mind it. Personally I’d be most comfortable hearing something along the lines of the following:
“Hey, I know this is kind of personal, and please don’t answer it if you don’t feel comfortable–just forget I asked. Do you have a preferred pronoun that I’m not using?”
By asking that, the other person isn’t acting like my identity is their business to know (because it isn’t)–they just want to know if they’re treating me how I want to be treated. It’s giving me the opportunity to elaborate if I want to, to just answer the question, or to not deal with it at all if I don’t want to. It’s making it clear that they are at least somewhat cognizant of trans issues, and I personally like to know who the allies in my life are.
So personally I’d say ask about pronouns, but since their identity is none of your business unless they want to share it, and they might not want to be “male” but may be genderqueer, not ask how they identify.
I’m curious to hear what other people think, though.
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Jay replied:
December 9th, 2010 at 5:50 pm
“Hey, I know this is kind of personal, and please don’t answer it if you don’t feel comfortable–just forget I asked. Do you have a preferred pronoun that I’m not using?” < That's a great way of phrasing it. And definitely agree with you, I think.
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Felix replied:
December 9th, 2010 at 8:18 pm
Being that this question could entirely apply to me, I would prefer to be asked in this way if someone wants to know.
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December 9th, 2010 at 4:42 pm |
My suggestion would be to find some time alone and ask something like, “do you still prefer female pronouns?” It’s a pretty neutral question and it shows some knowledge about gender stuff. It can be answered with a brief “yes” or “no” if your friend doesn’t want to talk about it, but it also invites a more complex response, like “for now”, or “I prefer gender-neutral pronouns, but I don’t expect people to be familiar with them”, or “yes, I’m a proud butch woman who wants to deconstruct the connection of masculinity to men.”
You could also say something like, “hey, I noticed you’ve been playing with your presentation. If you ever want to talk about it, I’m interested in hearing about your experience.” It depends on your comfort level, depth of friendship, and how much the two of you have discussed personal topics in the past. If you’ve previously told your friend about your history of depression, or shared details of your difficult childhood, it’s more likely to be an appropriate topic of discussion than if you’ve only ever discussed the weather.
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Vicky replied:
December 9th, 2010 at 7:51 pm
I’d steer clear of the phrase “playing with your presentation.” I understand that some people prefer this phrase, but some people (myself included) find the phrase to contain an unintentional negative connotation. Instead, I’d suggest finding a less charged turn of phrase, like “I have noticed you enjoy presenting yourself somewhat androgynously.” I agree that you should definitely express interest in his/her experience, and show that you are non-judgmental. Compassion is the watchword.
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Sivko replied:
December 10th, 2010 at 3:42 am
I’d be pretty taken aback by the phrasing “I have noticed you enjoy presenting yourself somewhat androgynously.” It’s still makes it sound like ze is presenting in a particular way for fun, rather than because that’s who ze is. OK, ze might be enjoying it, but it’s not always the case – I certainly felt that despite the fact my presentation marked me out, the costs of presenting differently were too high.
I’d avoid reference to appearance all together and focus on choice of pronouns as a way to (potentially) start a conversation.
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Vicky replied:
December 10th, 2010 at 5:47 am
Very good point. Do that.
December 9th, 2010 at 4:42 pm |
i would simply ask a question is harmless
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Will replied:
December 10th, 2010 at 10:21 am
not all questions are harmless. just sayin’ (check out the youtube link in @RedRightAnkle ‘s comment #7 if you need clarity.)
still, asking is your best bet. having read the comments, there are a TON of really great suggestions here. i think as long as you are focused how your friend wants to be treated / how you can best support them and NOT about about satisfying your own curiosity, you’ll be fine.
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Vicky replied:
December 10th, 2010 at 10:22 am
I agree wholeheartedly.
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December 9th, 2010 at 5:30 pm |
My gut feeling here is that if your friend binds hir chest and has a masculine style, the androgynous or masculine presentation is probably intentional and desired on hir part. I bet a polite and good-natured question, posed in private and maybe accompanying a compliment about hir style, would not be offensive.
I would pose the question in terms of what pronouns they prefer. That way, it’s a question about how they’d like to be treated. Asking them about their identity might put them on the spot, so I’d leave that up to them to talk about if they choose to.
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December 9th, 2010 at 5:45 pm |
I agree with the people who said you should just ask about pronouns.
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December 9th, 2010 at 5:51 pm |
It depends, there are really two types of questions. Questions that are more about sating your own curiosity (for a hilarious take down of some trans-centric questions that you shouldn’t go around asking I really recommend this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_lYKB9YaNE )
And then there are the questions you ask because you care and want to be respectful and want to refer to the person with the pronouns they self-identify with.
It also depends on your relationship with the person, and how you word things.
For example, asking “How do you identify?” or “What pronouns do you prefer?” might be okay. But asking “What are you?” or “Are you a he or a she?” is pretty offensive.
If I were you I would just make it known to your friend that you love and support them, and if they ever need to talk that you’re there for them.
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Samson replied:
December 9th, 2010 at 6:52 pm
(1) I ADORE that video and I had forgotten about it. Thanks!
(2) Very good points.
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Jessica replied:
December 10th, 2010 at 10:51 am
Seconded!
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December 9th, 2010 at 6:00 pm |
I think it depends on your friend’s personality. If they are easy going about potentially awkward questions, then it’s probably okay to ask them. If not, then absolutely wait for them to bring it up. Personally, I rather have people ask me than make assumptions about my gender identity.
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December 9th, 2010 at 6:56 pm |
The approach depends on when and how you knew this person. If you knew them before they altered their presentation you can ask, “I noticed you present differently. I like it and was just wondering if you wanted me to keep using female pronouns?” Do not frame the assumption around them changing their pronouns. Asking “Do you want me to use different pronouns?” implies that your mind thinks they should use different pronouns, which, as the ‘proud butch’ comment above shows, they may not want by any means. Say you recognize the status quo and frame your question as a maintenance of that.
If you met them in their current presentation, say, “Hey, I don’t want to be rude accidentally. Do you want me to keep using female pronouns? Any set of pronouns works for me, I just don’t want to unconsciously be a shit friend by not asking.”
As a transmasculine genderqueer person I appreciate the pronoun question, but don’t like when it’s framed presumptuously– as if I should be using male pronouns and not doing so is weird.
You get +50 friend points for wanting to ask and trying to find a respectful way to do it. :D
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December 9th, 2010 at 7:59 pm |
All I have to say is that I wish I had more friends like you. You are concerned for your friend’s feelings enough to do some in-depth research, and to ask people who might have been insulted by the question in the past for advice on how to ask it properly. This shows that you deeply care for your friendship. Also, it shows tremendous bravery on your part to ask this of him/her. You need to tap into that bravery and compassion, and ask however feels right to you. If you’ve known this person long enough, you should be a pretty decent judge of how (s)he will react to a given turn of phrase. As such, you should try to put it into words long before you ask.
You are well on your way to building a stronger relationship with your friend, and I commend you for that.
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December 9th, 2010 at 8:34 pm |
No matter what, you are being a good friend. You seem to genuinely care about your friend and wish them to be happy. You have also found this site which means you have done at least a little research. If you two are very close friends then as long as you phrase your questions in a respectful manner then your friend will probably be open with you. If you two aren’t as good as friends you might want to be more careful with what you say. Maybe start off more general. Talk about a transmasculine person in the media or something like that. Just make sure your friend knows that you care about them and you want them to be happy. A friend who I am not that close to once asked me if was the T in LGBT. I told him yes and didn’t find it problematic but your friend might. If your friend already IDs as queer then that might help.
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December 9th, 2010 at 9:27 pm |
i agree with everyone saying to ask about pronouns. they will have the option to explain their gender, but are not forced to, and too many times, i can explain my gender, but can never find a way to just say that i prefer other pronouns. personally, i would prefer being asked about pronouns, because it shows that you care about how they feel, but also care enough to not force them to explain something that may be too personal, especially if you are not very good friends with them.
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December 9th, 2010 at 11:44 pm |
As an genderqueer transguy who’s very androgynous, I often get confused looks or outright stares from people who can’t “figure out” my gender. I always appreciate it when people who are curious simply ask. That being said, HOW you ask is very important. If someone asks “Are you a boy or a girl?” that offends me because they’re asking me to define myself through their terms. If they ask “How do you identify in terms of gender?” I’m ecstatic because I can share how I feel about myself in my own terms. It could be your friend is shy and is waiting for you to ask or just isn’t ready to talk about it yet. If they aren’t ready, they might decline to answer. That’s OK – just wait for the time to be right for them. Either way, asking politely shows you care about them and how they feel. Good luck to you both!
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December 10th, 2010 at 1:32 am |
I don’t bring the subject up myself, often because I don’t want to make everything to be about me. But I *love* when people ask ; usually it means an interesting conversation ensues (the questions people ask of us can bring interesting new perspectives).
There are people who don’t ask, and treat me without assumptions – which I think is great. There are people who don’t ask, and treat me as a man (even though I’ve been living in feminine attires for over a year) which I think is rude/ignorant.
I don’t particular like pronoun questions myself, because I feel it forces me to choose. I’d rather people asked me about gender, as that allows me to elaborate without having to choose sides.
But to say the truth, if a caring person asks a question in a careful way, it’s always ok – whatever the question is, and even if the person makes some mistakes. I have been through it (still am), and I know it’s not easy/clear cut/obvious/predictable/stable ; so I am tolerant of honest mistakes, as long as I can see the person is being careful and trying to understand without making assumptions (some people think they know who I am because they saw a program on transsexuals on TV – that can be terribly upsetting).
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December 10th, 2010 at 9:53 am |
It’s a little difficult to know from a brief comment some things I’d like to know before giving you advice: how long have you known this person? How long have they been doing this? How does this person generally react to criticism? Since you know she binds, you either know her pretty well or she’s very obvious about it… so I wonder if she seems to act more androgynous around you, or is the same around anyone?
I see good points in not saying anything and good points in asking. I lean toward the latter. It obviously bothers you not to know. If it bothered me, I’d probably say something like, “{name}, lately you seem quite androgynous to me. (hold up hand to forestall interruption) I don’t want to upset you either because I misunderstood you or because I failed to respond to something that is important to you. So please help me here, I tend to be really bad at this kind of thing and you’re really important to me. There is no right answer. I just want to read you correctly.”
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tigr replied:
December 10th, 2010 at 12:20 pm
I like your comment! the only thing I’d amend is “There is no right answer” – I think it’d be better to (positively) phrase it as “There is no wrong answer”… :)
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Jessica replied:
December 10th, 2010 at 1:29 pm
True. My Latin teacher used to say, “In Mathematics there are right answers. In everything else, not so much.”
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December 10th, 2010 at 2:30 pm |
How about not asking a question, but saying something like ” hey, as we get to know each other better, I want to acknowledge your identity, and want you to know I support you 100%. I’m totally interested, and want you to know that I’m here to talk to, and if you ever want me to use different pronouns, or if you prefer I make any changes to better support our friendship, I’m willing”. Or something… You know, not make it about them, but about you and that you care. Just thoughts. Cj
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December 30th, 2010 at 9:16 pm |
Wholly Crap!!!
when I first read this I immediately thought one of my friends could have written it.
but on second thought, none of my friends have noticed when i bind, they’re constantly joking that I’m practically flat-chested that it escapes their notice when i intentionally am flat.
unfortunately, this will never be a question that any of my friends would ever ask. with them, i can be as weird as i want, as long as i don’t defy nature. to them, saying that i want to be a boy would be like screaming “hey God, guess what? you screwed up. I’m gonna go make my own choices and ignore you.” for now I’ll take what I can get, since I’m way too chicken to come out to any of my friends.
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Jessica replied:
December 31st, 2010 at 12:01 am
Who ever said that God never made mistakes? It seems rather impertinent to claim that God is capable of learning.
It’s not always fear that keeps us from coming out. Sometimes it is kindness.
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Vicky replied:
January 3rd, 2011 at 7:53 am
Kindness is most certainly the reason I’ve never come out to my parents. It does not speak ill of you to never come out in order to spare someone’s feelings; nor is it unhealthy or untrue to yourself. It is only unhealthy to not come out if it is causing you or others physical or emotional distress. Just as with many things, it’s only necessary when it becomes a problem.
As such, if your friends are ribbing you enough that it hurts you, you should come out to them, explain that this is who you are, how you were born, and they should just deal with this gender identity. If they don’t, it’s more a problem of them having difficulty acknowledging you than of you bothering them.
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Jessica replied:
January 3rd, 2011 at 8:46 am
I my heart, whether you come out to people (like parents) really depends on whether the lack of coming out makes a barrier between you. My my case, both my parents are dead, so it was not an issue for me and my transition. I wish I had transitioned earlier – I would have loved to talk with my mother, who was a very wise and well-traveled elder. I know from talking to other people that what you fear in revelations about your transgender-ness are usually greater than the worst that actually happens – not always, but usually.
I guess for me, it matters also if this person has a right to know. Kindness is one thing, but deliberate deception is quite another.
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Vicky replied:
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:24 am
Absolutely. I would never deliberately deceive anyone I care about. I just don’t mention it around them, and they never ask.
Jessica replied:
January 3rd, 2011 at 1:47 pm
There is a kind of person who wears their trans identity on their sleeve and proclaims it to one and all and sundry in a very tiresome fashion. Some people need to make the break of coming out to force them in a decision of what they’re doing with their lives…
I have spoken with several people who “came out” and wish they hadn’t, because they still had doubts. People I don’t really know, most co-workers, tradespeople, etc.,… I like to leave to come to their own conclusions.
Ace replied:
January 3rd, 2011 at 5:19 pm
“Some people need to make the break of coming out to force them in a decision of what they’re doing with their lives…”
I don’t want to judge anyone’s motives in coming out.
My boy has pointed out on several occasions that before he was consistently read as male, he *had* to come out as trans in order to have a hope of being correctly gendered. Now that he is consistently read as male, being out as trans paradoxically is what gives people the opportunity to misgender him. It’s a sad double bind in our society and one he’s having a lot of pain negotiating.
Jessica replied:
January 3rd, 2011 at 7:44 pm
@Ace I should have said, “Some people have told me, after the fact, that they needed to make the break of coming out…” It can be a useful strategy some people use to get them off the fence one way or the other.
If there’s anything that is one-size-fits-none it’s coming out. Everybody has different methods, motives, reasons, rationales, and justifications before, during and after. Not only is there no right or wrong answer, there isn’t even a right or wrong question.
I judge no one. No one has the right to do that.
January 3rd, 2011 at 10:04 pm |
I know a ftm boy who has “trans love” tattooed to him, it will blow up in his face one day I’m sure.
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Jessica replied:
January 3rd, 2011 at 11:35 pm
He could change it to “predextrans lover” Dextrans are important in the citric acid cycle – the metabolism of sugars, aka respiration. there’s pre-dextrans and post-dextrans in the process.
Kind of like tattooing a bathing suit on that nude on your chest.
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January 4th, 2011 at 3:07 am |
About 5 years ago I knew a girl who was a lesbian [this tired old story] who had a japanese kanji symbol for woman on the hip to represent feminist studies majoring at university, and being secure in womanhood…shortly after came out as trans, and said oh the tattoo now is “woman” because I love to DATE women… [honourifics of the language be damned] and shortly after that began to date men exclusively…this is why 20 years shouldn’t be allowed to get tattoos :-/
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alex jerusalem replied:
January 4th, 2011 at 10:06 am
Really? 20 year olds shouldn’t get tattoos because later in life they might decide that the image has a different meaning than originally planned? Whatever.
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Jessica replied:
January 4th, 2011 at 10:43 am
Just get something so vague as to be capable of being construed to mean anything you damn well want it to mean. My favorite tattoo (see, not have) is two kittens curled around each other that make a yin/yang symbol.
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April 5th, 2011 at 1:17 pm |
Asking about pronouns is the agreed-upon etiquette, but personally I’d prefer to be asked about my identity. I’m secure in my identity and can explain that, not so secure in how I want people to respond to me. When I refer to myself in third person, I usually use ze/zir, but I don’t like it so much when someone calls me “Girl–oh, sorry, I mean boy,” which one of my friends does. I’d rather them just stop at “girl,” just as I prefer not to be around when people refer to me in third person, but I’d rather them use the less-noticeable she/her than to take the control of who knows my identity out of my hands by using something that will be remarked upon. And it occurs to me that I could just explain all that, but hopefully my negative reaction to the question makes sense.
Just goes to show there’s no guaranteed way of not stepping on a friend’s toes in this situation–but remember to not get defensive about your own actions if you give offensive and to listen/wait for the person instead, and you should be good.
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