Question: Titles
Regen asks…
I’ve been filling out all sorts of applications for college lately and they all ask for some kind of Mr./Mrs./Ms. title in front of your name. I haven’t had to use these a lot before and I’m having trouble determining what a good androgynous title would be… any ideas?
Please post your response in the comments below.
» Ask Genderfork «
Posted by Alice on March 15th, 2011 at 04:00 pm
Category: questions 43 comments »
March 15th, 2011 at 4:11 pm |
Maybe just an “M.” ? I’m not sure what it could stand for, maybe anything.
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Nate replied:
March 15th, 2011 at 4:28 pm
“M.” is the shorthand for the French “monsieur”,so it still implies male despite the fact that it isn’t used in English.
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March 15th, 2011 at 4:34 pm |
I’ve heard of Mx., which I rather like.
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The Nerd replied:
March 15th, 2011 at 4:37 pm
But what does Mx. mean? How is it pronounced? I keep asking Google, with no answers.
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Jasper replied:
March 15th, 2011 at 5:14 pm
I don’t know if it’s correct, but I’ve come across it being pronounced as “Mixter.”
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Samson replied:
March 26th, 2011 at 11:10 am
I’ve heard “Mix” or “Mystery.”
Lia replied:
March 16th, 2011 at 7:27 am
Mail eXchanger [1], or course ! I guess it indicates your gender is inextricably linked to that passion of always telling people where to send their emails. Or maybe it’s for people whose gender is linked to the love of being hosted by servers.
[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MX_record
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original commenter (who happens to abbreviate her first name as "m" sometimes online, but won't here.) replied:
March 16th, 2011 at 8:28 am
I hadn’t thought about that. But if it’s just for a form, just because you need to put *something* down, does it matter?
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March 15th, 2011 at 5:26 pm |
Being required to choose a title is annoying, and usually way too confining. I don’t understand why it’s required on some online forms — meaning you can’t complete the form until you make a choice. For a paper form, or online forms where it’s not required, I leave that choice blank. I choose not to choose.
Historically, I think the reason they want this piece of information is so that when they send letters to you, they can say ‘Mr. Jones’ or ‘Ms. Smith’, etc. It’s a formality that can be very nice, if you enjoy having a title used in that way.
Systems that require such a choice need an update.
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March 15th, 2011 at 5:34 pm |
It’s nerdy, but Lojban (an expressly /logical/ language which, among other things, does not usually distinguish gender) may use .io (pron. ee-o, probably anglicized to ‘yo’)(this usage is apparently under contention). Also, Hindi has the gender-neutral, honorific suffix -ji. But those are kind of odd.
Perhaps Mizzter? Could that be the elusive pronunciation of Mx.? sounds a bit weird, though, eh? or you could put Mi. and just let them use ms. or mister (if you’re ok with that).
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March 15th, 2011 at 5:54 pm |
I think that Ms. could quite easily be seen as an abbreviation for either Mister or Mistress, and therefore seems to fit the needs of a gender-neutral title. The spoken pronunciation ‘Mizz’ is also reasonably non-gendered. It’s probably not as good an option as M. would be, since that is completely non-gendered (at least in English), but it works well enough for me.
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Charlie replied:
March 16th, 2011 at 5:48 am
In the UK ‘Ms’ is a strictly ‘woman’ gendered title, usually used when the person doesn’t want to disclose their marital status. It’s outrageously sexist and binarist, but there you go.
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Lia replied:
March 16th, 2011 at 7:33 am
‘M’ is only not gendered for you if that’s how you feel about it – but for the rest of the world out there, I don’t think ‘M’ is not gendered – because masculine is the default (one of the point of binary systems is just that – that people can always know how to categorize you, and that requires a default position for everything : white, able-bodied, male, middle class, etc. [*])
So an ‘M’ would most likely be interpreted as ‘Mr’.
[*] At lease these are the defaults where I live :)
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March 15th, 2011 at 7:13 pm |
Maybe Mn.? I guess you could just make up something to go with it… :/
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March 15th, 2011 at 7:35 pm |
I usually go with “Capt.”
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Anonymous replied:
March 15th, 2011 at 9:59 pm
That’s a good one! :)
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Dorian replied:
March 16th, 2011 at 10:48 pm
The answer is yes on all levels.
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March 15th, 2011 at 11:03 pm |
I sometimes use “Le Mademoiselle” :)
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March 16th, 2011 at 5:46 am |
I use ‘Misc.’ or ‘Msc’ as in ‘Miscellaneous’, and other non binary people I know have started to do the same.
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March 16th, 2011 at 7:59 am |
I tend to call people Captain as a gender-neutral and kinda fun option. However, if the forms have pre-set options, this might not work. I wouldn’t recommend writing it in unless you’re prepared to explain later that you don’t mean it in a military sense (if anyone asks). Could you choose one of the given options and put a note elsewhere in your application explaining that you’d prefer an androgynous title? Would you feel comfortable with that?
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March 16th, 2011 at 8:50 am |
A room mate of mine at college had a title. He never used it unless the police were involved. I’ve never been happy with being a Mister or a Miss – one is my father and I don’t know who the other one is, but it’s almost always used condescendingly. Mrs is my mother, not me. I never understood girls who would say “I’ll be Mrs. so-and-so” dreamily. Always seemed to me to me they were saying: “I’ll be property of…”
Hs. is one I have used (homo sapiens but enunciated Hister) or Fp (Freep – free person). Usually you do not have a choice, in which case I try and leave it blank.
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March 16th, 2011 at 9:08 am |
How about Citizen? “Hello, Citizen (insert last name here)!” I’m not sure how to abbreviate it.
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Jessica replied:
March 16th, 2011 at 9:11 am
Sounds kind of Orwellian to me… Besides, I like identifying with Earth, not some particular nation state.
On Star Trek some characters referred disparagingly to “Earthers” so perhaps “Hello, Earther Smith (Er. Smith)
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Elle replied:
March 16th, 2011 at 8:14 pm
My first thought was Comrade, but that sounded too plotting-big-trouble-for-moose-and-squirrel.
If we’re worried about titles gendering us, maybe we should drop names too. We could just use our Social Security numbers. Or just drop language altogether. How’s that for Orwellian?
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March 16th, 2011 at 9:41 am |
Yeah, some of my genderqueer friends and I use “Mx.”, or “Mixter”. It is just a gender neutral title, pronounced mix-ter.
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March 16th, 2011 at 9:44 am |
|How about just telling them you are a trans person, and raise the issue with them – make them think about their rules and classifications, that they should think of you as a human first and foremost. Is that a possibility?
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March 16th, 2011 at 10:25 am |
Yeah, I have trouble with this. I’m a quaker, and it’s an old quaker custom to refuse titles as a way of asserting equality among people. Obviously this is less of a pressing issue now than it was 100-200 years ago, but banks etc. do still love their titles. But failing the abolition of titles entirely, Fp is pretty great :D
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The Nerd replied:
March 16th, 2011 at 11:59 am
What a good idea! I honestly don’t know what use titles have. The earned ones like Dr. and such do have a sort of functionality, but the Mr. and Ms. are definitely obsolete.
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Jessica replied:
March 16th, 2011 at 12:29 pm
I was raised Quaker, we wouldn’t stand when a judge entered the court and all kinds of things… good ideas. People don’t need titles and privilege. All people should be on an equality absolute.
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March 16th, 2011 at 3:39 pm |
My father was signing me up for a Frequent Flyer account recently, and for some reason (his views on gender are difficult to explain in under eight hours) he decided “Mr.” and “Ms.” were both unsuitable.
Apparently, I’m a Reverend now. o_o
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Milo replied:
March 16th, 2011 at 4:53 pm
I’m now quite fond of your father.
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March 16th, 2011 at 6:03 pm |
Having moved to the title-obsessed UK six months ago, I’ve managed by and large to avoid gendering myself on forms by choosing the often-present option of ‘Air Commodore’.
I always have trouble with forms that just have ‘Mr.’, ‘Ms.’, and ‘Mrs.’ as choices – I’ve been putting off getting a new rail card for just this reason, though I’ve been contemplating checking ‘Mr.’ combined with my legal (female) name. Maybe choosing the gendered title that contradicts your name’s gender?
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March 16th, 2011 at 6:33 pm |
Honesty might be the best approach. I’m in the same boat – just applied to RISD for photography and if I’m accepted, the semester will start about 9 months into HRT. I’m not sure whether to start school as a woman, or wait until half way (or all the way) through the school year. My plan is to be honest with them, let them know my I’m transitioning, and then ask what they feel will be my best approach. I was going to possibly ask if I could skip my first semester while I continue concentrating on my transition. Then again, it’ll all depend on the effects of HRT.
If you’re at a much more liberal school, you might have luck just being honest. In fact, it might help build a group of friends that are in the same boat. I’ve already done my undergrad, and all I can say is BE HONEST. You’ll meet supportive and genuine people that way (and then spend the next four, long years with them). A good school will work with you, possibly give you some ideas on what to put down on the paper-work.
Good luck with everything!
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March 16th, 2011 at 6:35 pm |
On a drop-down menu, I pick whichever one I’m leaning more towards that day. Or sometimes I just close my eyes and click. So it’s different on every form I fill out. x)
In a required text box, I use “Misc.”
Thank you dearly to the person who mentioned Lojiban. Do you know what it uses for pronouns?
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George Grey replied:
March 17th, 2011 at 3:59 am
Misc! That’s clever.
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Adelene replied:
March 17th, 2011 at 6:01 pm
> Thank you dearly to the person who mentioned Lojiban. Do you know what it uses for pronouns?
It’s been a while since I poked at Lojban, but if I remember correctly it doesn’t have anything quite equivalent to English pronouns. The closest I remember it coming would be a word that would mean something like ‘the thing I referred to three words ago’, which wouldn’t even differentiate between singular and plural ‘things’, much less male/female/other.
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Anonymous replied:
June 6th, 2012 at 9:40 am
Lojban uses the pronouns found in the following links:
http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/KOhA3
http://vlasisku.lojban.org/vlasisku/KOhA4
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March 17th, 2011 at 4:52 am |
One of the big motivators behind my wanting to get a Doctoral degree is so that I can select “Dr”.
Of course, that means filling out all sorts of forms that involve Mrs./Ms./Mr.
I recently completed a survey about inclusion at the University campus, and included in my comments a section about the alienation involved in having the pick-one bubble “option” (Gender: Male/Female), and all sorts of clickable boxes (and an Other: ___explain here___) options for race. Intersections of identity = IMPORTANT. I love that there are so many intermingled options for race.
Maybe can has too?
There are all sorts of politics behind “other”… but it’s a start.
I’m sorry that you’re experiencing this too :(
I hate it when it’s made mandatory in order to continue the forms. I can’t count the number of online registrations I’ve turned away from because I’ve been cornered by this damn drop-down menu/pick-one-bubble.
<3 love n' hugs (if you want them)
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Samson replied:
March 26th, 2011 at 11:12 am
Bear Bergman wrote about taking the title “Dr.” without a degree!
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March 17th, 2011 at 12:55 pm |
I’ve always liked “zazza” if doesnt really mean anything, but Its neutral. So you could be like
z. Chance (in my case)
or even zz, Zz.or Z.
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March 18th, 2011 at 7:29 am |
Once I sent an email to a charity whose website had a mandatory title list, and they apologized profusely, said they had genderqueer people on staff, and promised to fix it. Don’t be afraid to ask!
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March 20th, 2011 at 2:42 am |
Don’t be afraid to leave these boxes empty when filling in paper forms. I get “fixed” again and again but the more of us who do it, maybe the more likely a few people will get it.
I mean, seriously, how are gender and title required fields? (If I wanted to be addressed something other than “Dear “, I would have taken the opportunity to select a title, thankyou.)
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March 29th, 2011 at 2:43 pm |
I’ve said MC for “Master/Mistress of Ceremonies” before, but clearly that can’t apply in the majority of situations.
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